1. I think Catullus views love not as an emotion but rather as something that you can observe and objectified. He use words such as 'length' and 'sum' to describe a woman's body shape which shows that he likes to use his eyes to objectified rather than talk about emotions and feelings that can't be described physically. I had mixed feelings about Catullus when I read poem 86. I think he's the type of person that judges a book by the cover because to him beauty is love and that the most beautiful woman is his love but at the same time I think there's something more he looks for instead of just beauty, because in poem 86, he writes that others have find Quintia "stunning" but he prefers Lesbia over Quintia. This shows that he might not have the same beauty standards as other men, or he also looks for something more than being beautiful.
2. I think in Catullus's poem 106, he question the good of human nature in a way. In this I think he shows that he believes anyone that are beautiful and have committed actions that are of a lower class is to bring tortue upon themselves and that they enjoy doing it rather than are forced to do it. I honestly believe nobody would want to do something like sell themselves unless they are forced or there's a story behind it and I would not just say that he's selling himself.
I think in Catullus's poem 73, he belives that humans don't deserve anyone helping them and that they shouldn't be grateful or appreciate it when someone helps them. And he thinks that helping people out is not a very "profitable" thing to do, which shows that he probably thinks its a waste of time and only wants to spend time doing things he thinks will benefit himself.
I think in Catullus's poem 78, he uses satire to degrade humans. This poem basically explains that because of someones stupidity, they caused incest for the family. When I read the poem, I laughed and then questioned what the heck is wrong with them. This shows that he thinks lower of people who are not as educated or are not intelligent.
I think themes that tends to interest him is human nature, erotic love, anger maybe?, friends and foe. Most of the satirical poems make fun of traits that degrades humans. I would say it's brutual but it's pretty honest, because we always judge a lot the first time we see something. We don't like to think there's a underlying message or story and believe what is given.
3. My personal definition of romantic love is the kind of love both parties would go against the people they care about for the one they love. Kind of like Romeo and Juilet where they are not allowed to be together but they still choose to be together in the end. It's the type of love where you'll do anything for the person you love, even if it means betraying your family or friends. I think love should be between two people and the would shouldn't have a say about what they decide to do. It's their own choice. And two people definitely have to go through a lot of ups and downs, tears and smiles, break-ups and make-ups to really say that they've gone through everything and to say they love each other. And I think time is very important also. The longer you spend with someone, the more you show you love that person. I believe in the saying, 'where you put your time is where your heart is at'. Spending time, which I consider to be one of the most valueable resource, because it's irreplaceable, with someone shows that you're willing to give them something very important.
Catullus and Sappho
Catullus:
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
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3 comments:
I think what you said about Catullus as someone who judges a book by its cover is spot on. He gave off that negative vibe for me too after I read Catullus 86. He thinks that just because Lesbia is beautiful, it makes her perfect. He's going to choose her like you choose a book by its pretty cover. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to compliment a woman for her beautiful looks but if there isn't anything more attached to it, then he's just being shallow.
i'm not sure if I agree fully with your statement, we all use our eyes to judge ones beauty and to say he is only judging the womens beauty is hearsay, he does mention "there's no spice at all in the length of her body" what is the spice? could that be the intellect? and by saying Lesbia's beauty is total, does she attain the spice that his tastebuds desire, and by saying "standards of ther men" in true because all humans have different desires for example:for me Quinta is Paris Hilton as is Leasbia is to Jenna Fischer.
I agree with you that Catullus is brutual and honest. I think he writes what is on his mind which is a good and a bad thing. I also read those poems that you mentioned. I agree that he does degrade humans as you said but I feel that he is just trying to help them. Its like hes whinning and ranting but at the same time giving advice to everyone.
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