There is no doubt that Catullus seems to love Lesbia or what he seems to think is love. He uses concrete terms such as “sum” and “total” to describe a women’s beauty, which demonstrates how narrow minded Catullus seems when envisioning a women’s beauty. Even though I think he is narrow minded when envisioning the beauty of a women he expresses more feeling for Lesbia over Quintia or any other women for that matter. When he uses logical terms as in math, there is only one result to the problem; the answer will always be the same. There is no deviation from the problem; math is concrete and this is the same way he thinks of women.
#32- Catullus is talking to a woman named Ipsitilla, who he seems to know since he refers to her as “my darling, my sophisticate beauty.” He wants to meet her for a late rendezvous and does not want her to take “another client,” which I am lead to believe that she is a prostitute. His only interest is to have sex with her. He does not want to spend time with her or even take her to dinner. For one he wants to meet her at 9pm and second has already eaten. So it is clear that he is a pig and has only one thing on his mind.
#33- This poem is quite weird. There is a father and son who are as thick as thieves or who are actually thieves. The father is better known as a thief but the son seems to be a slacker. I think that there might also be an underlying mention of prostitution. The father and son are “skulking about the bathhouses.” So either they are trying to prostitute or wait for the perfect opportunity take advantage of those who leave there personal affects around. The poem also states that the son is “Peddling his voracious fundament,” and the mention of how he “couldn’t sell that hairy ass of yours for a penny.” He seems to be a thieving prostitute but can’t seem to turn tricks so maybe that is why he and the father resort to thievery.
#37- He is in a tavern talking to these mail prostitutes or what seems to be. He says how these men are greedy and think that they are the only men that are there. The main thing that stuck out to me in this poem is that he is a bully, which I think is why he is too tough with these men. He calls these men “puny” and how he will “draw dicks” all over the front of your tavern,” which clearly shows how much he thinks of himself. He also mentions how the girl he is in love with is making love to only good and rich men. So he must think highly of this girl since she is only worthy of sleeping with men of wealth but if you ask me they are all disgusting.
Love, sex, and deception are the common links between these three poems. They are all different in the way sex is displayed and explained but they are all through prostitution and deception. He claims to love this woman in poem #37 and wants Ipsitilla to only be with him for the night. Whether he is a desperate man trying to fill a void in his heart is something I think is surfacing. He perhaps might have been hurt in the past and tries to find love through women who can’t really hurt him or leave him. He can come and go as he pleases and these women will still be there because it is what they do. So by being with these women, he can fill the empty void that he seems to have.
My definition of romantic love is something that is abstract. It has different meanings to everyone one but has to have certain criteria. Love is a type of eudemonia that cannot be touched. Love is unexplainable and puts you at the highest euphoria a person can experience. Love is romantic and love is hate; love is real and love is bad. It is a feeling that cannot be described but only be felt. It is a connection and a bond. Not necessarily between only two people. I know from experience that you can love two people at the same time. It might not be that same type of love but is there and it is real. How this love develops is defined by the person who is giving and receiving the love but most of all I feel that love is changing.
Catullus and Sappho
Catullus:
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
Sunday, September 27, 2009
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4 comments:
In poem 37, i thought it was interesting that you got the males were the prostitutes. I didn't look at it like that but it makes sense. After reading it, i got the idea that the girl catullus is in love with is the prostitute sleeping with all those men in the tavern. I suppose it could go both ways.
I do agree with you Ant when you say "love is changing". I think the real love is when you feel you want to become a better person. It takes out all the good that there is in you!...I am not quite sure about "hate" in Romantic love...Hate is a strong sentiment but i think it cannot go with romance...Ciaoooooo
Anthony I must say that I totally disagree when you state that love has a "certain criteria."
Isn't love a feeling/emotion/state of mind? How can certain criteria apply?
I strongly believe that love cannot be measured and therefore no criteria can be applied because when emotions take over, rationality disappears.
I do agree with you when you say that love is abstract and cant be explained. I dont know how you can love two people at one time though. Love must be greater for one than the other.. and i mean romantic love. One maybe love while the other could be infatuation or even pity. why do you say it is always changing? because it becomes greater over time?
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