1. It is very clear that beauty is the most important thing in a woman and that is the first thing that he would notice in a woman. According to Catullus, beauty is something that is measured, and it only applies to the physical features of a woman. He uses mathematical phrases such a sum, total and diminish to describe Lesbia's beauty. He feels that Lesbia is the most beautiful woman, and no other woman can compare to her beauty. The sum of all womens beauty does not compare to Lesbias total beauty. In a mathematical sense he basically uses addition to add up all of the womens beatuy, but subtraction becuase it is still less than Lesbias total beauty.
2. I think in all of Catullus's poems only focus on beauty and nothing else. I do believe that his views and commentary can be linked with these present times. Alot of people say that true beauty is on the inside and I agree with that, however most people are shallow and most of the time they will judge a book by its cover, and that is all that Catullus seems to talk about. He never mentions a womans intellect, only her physical features.
In poem 43, he is speaking about a woman who claims to be so "beautiful". He then goes on to say that compared to Lesbia she is ugly and is nowhere near Lesbias beauty. There is no comparison to Lesbia's beauty, clearly this other woman has a big nose, big feet, dry lips and Catullus cannot understand how this woman is considered beautiful. He thinks that people who think shes beautiful are "tasteless" and don't know true beauty. It is clear that Lesbia is the most beautiful woman he knows.
In poem 78, he is again speaking about outer beauty, and physical features. By using the words such as lovliest and beautiful there is a real emphasis on physical appearance. It also seems as though adultery is accepted becuase this poem states Gallus is a "stupid man that doesn't see himself as a husband" and becuase this woman is so lovely and beautiful, it is ok to have an affair with her.
In poem 82 there is a real emphasis on the importance of eye sight. Catullus's eyes are his most important feature. The quote "anything if there is more dear than eyes " really says alot about Catullus's character. He is so shallow that if he does not have his eye sight there is nothing for him to live for. He needs his eyes to see and if Quintus takes away his eyesight than he will not be able to see Lesbia's beauty nor anyone elses. And it is clear that his eyes make him the person that he is.
3. In my opinion romantic love is feeling complete with the person you are with. Love is unconditional and it is something that can never be measured. Love is going above and beyond for a person knowing that your words and actions are deeply appreciated. I do believe that that you do have a strong physical attraction to the person as well, but at the end of the day if your significant other accepts you for the person that you are and loves you reguardless of any flaw that you have, then you know that you are in love.
Catullus and Sappho
Catullus:
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
Saturday, September 26, 2009
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5 comments:
I have to say that I agree with you one hundred percent. If you'll read my comment on true romantic love, you'll see that you and I have similar points of view on the topic. I also agree that personality is and should be the main attraction between two people in a loving relationship.
I don't quite understand your last comment about addiction and substraction, in terms of Lesbia's beauty but yes ...i think you are right when you say that Catullus' view of beauty and love is measurable...Still i think when someone is so in love as catullus is but is able to remain rational and measure beauty, I think he is not loving enough..When you are in love can be everything but no Rational!
I agree with your position that beauty is measurable but that measurement completely depends on what you are assuming as ideal. There is no single thing which can be known as standard of beauty.
i think the measure part(for how beauty a woman is )would be interesting ,maybe in views of other people Lesbia is as beauty as Quintia in general.(at least not a big difference)But, Lesbia is just Catullus's cup of tea to earn a alot extra points. one of the reason could be that it's too difficult to catch Lesbia's heart,like what Ira explained in other posts, Catullus is somehow possessed by such feeling that he found ideal lover but it's so hard to get her
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