1.) I believe Catullus is very super fiscal in the way he studies a woman's beauty. It is if he has made it a science in figuring out what make a woman beautiful or not. It is also kind of odd the way he says "there's no spice at all in the length of her body" I can only assume that he is referring to the curves and shapes of her body. With all his descriptions of what beauty is to him, it tells me that he probably equates love with beauty. It also tells me that he would probably not be happy with a woman that he thinks is not beautiful, and would not be with someone who just had a good personality. It could also be that he has a strong preference for Quintia and all other woman don't compare according to him.
2.) I could see why most colleges tend to stick with the more conservative poems. In poem 33 he talks about a father in a bath house who is sexually abusing his son. I think he is also saying that the father is pimping his son out to other men for money. He is apparent from his writing that this sickens him and wants to see them both go to hell. In his opinion the son is just as bad as the father. A recurring theme in Catullus’s writing seemed to be an obsession with woman. In poem 37 he seemed to be to be expressing his views about how some men treat women so poorly. In this particular poem he writes about how certain men are having sex with lots of different women. He is also saying that they are treated like goats. He also writes about a girl he loved more then any other girl, however she left him.
I don’t see the value of his social commentary in modern times. He seemed to be very super fiscal when it came to women he also was very obsessed with sexual themes that pertain to women.
3.) My definition of romantic love is when two people take the time to make moments special for each other. What I mean is that one of them is willing to go the extra mile for the other person, weather that means planning a special dinner or just making everyday things a little bit special. I think romance comes naturally in the beginning of a relationship, but after two people have been with each other for a while they have to work at it. I do believe some people are just natural romantic’s and don’t have to work at it, but I do believe most people have to work on it.
Catullus and Sappho
Catullus:
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
Friday, September 25, 2009
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2 comments:
For your first response, I actually think Catullus prefers Lesbia more than Quintia because he starts out with "Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive......Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia's beauty is total". To me that meant he thinks Quintia was great, but Lesbia's better. Because he used the word "sum" with Lesbia and in a way that shows he thinks shes greater? or better?
I agree with Mei in what she said about Catullus prefering Lesbia. But other than that, I wanted to comment on your second response. I actually do not understand why colleges do not like his other poems. I feel that things such as sexual abuse and sex are things that a person at the age of 18 should have known about. I also feel that although he writes about these things, he does not seem to describe everything about it. I feel that the description in Oedipus the King was more graphic.
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