1. When I think of mathematics, I immediately think of rational. Catullus vision of love seems rational if we look at the mathematical description he makes of his lover. He is seeking for perfection. All mathematical objects have perfect shape and dimensions. And so is the woman Catullus is in love with: she has a perfect beauty. But at the same time I see Catullus in an emotional state. He seems deeply in love with Lesbia and no other woman seems to interest him. Lesbia seems to have a strong power on him. All other women compared to her beauty are diminuished according to the poet. Catullus is seeking perfection in terms of beauty and love!
Catullus and Sappho
Catullus:
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
86
Many find Quintia stunning. I find her attractive:
Tall, “regal,” fair in complexion—these points are granted.
But stunning? No, I deny it: the woman is scarcely venerious,
There’s no spice at all in the length of her body!
Now Lesbia is stunning, for Lesbia’s beauty is total:
And by that sum all other women are diminished.
39
Egnatius, because he has bright white teeth,always smiles: If someone comes to the defendant'sbench, when the speaker arouses weeping,he grins; If there is weeping at the funeral pyre ofa dutiful son, when the bereaved mother laments her only son,he grins. Whatever it is, wherever he is,whatever he is doing, he grins: he has this disease,neither elegant, as I think, nor refined.Therefore I must warn you, my good Egnatius.If you were a city man or a Sabine or a Tiburnanor a thrifty Umbrian or a fat Etruscanor a swarthy or toothy Lanuvian ora Transpadane, to touch on my own people as well,or anyone you like who cleans his teeth with clean water,I still should not want you to smile on all occasions:for nothing is more silly than a silly smile.Now you are a Celtiberian: in the land of Celtiberia,whatever each man has urinated, with this he is accustomedin the morning to rub his teeth and gums until they are red,so that the more polished those teeth of yours are,the more urine they proclaim you to have drunk.
70
My woman says there is no one whom she’d rather marry
Than me, not even Jupiter, if he came courting.
That’s what she says—but what a woman says to a passionate lover
Ought to be scribbled on wind, on running water.
94
Mentula is an adulterer. Why certainly he is. How could he be anythingelse with a name such as his. It is as natural as for a pot to gather vegetables.
Excerpts from Sappho
‘Some say horsemen, some say warriors’
Some say horsemen, some say warriors,
Some say a fleet of ships is the loveliest
Vision in this dark world, but I say it’s
What you love.
It’s easy to make this clear to everyone,
Since Helen, she who outshone
All others in beauty, left
A fine husband,
And headed for Troy
Without a thought for
Her daughter, her dear parents…
Led astray….
And I recall Anaktoria, whose sweet step
Or that flicker of light on her face,
I’d rather see than Lydian chariots
Or the armed ranks of the hoplites.
‘Stand up and look at me, face to face’
Stand up and look at me, face to face
My friend,
Unloose the beauty of your eyes.....
‘Love shook my heart’
Love shook my heart,
Like the wind on the mountain
Troubling the oak-trees.
‘He’s equal with the Gods, that man’
He’s equal with the Gods, that man
Who sits across from you,
Face to face, close enough, to sip
Your voice’s sweetness,
And what excites my mind,
Your laughter, glittering. So,
When I see you, for a moment,
My voice goes,
My tongue freezes. Fire,
Delicate fire, in the flesh.
Blind, stunned, the sound
Of thunder, in my ears.
Shivering with sweat, cold
Tremors over the skin,
I turn the colour of dead grass,
And I’m an inch from dying.
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5 comments:
i like the way you made a connection between Catullus's prospective of love and beauty to rationality. i agree with you that he is looking for a perfect love. however, as we all know that there is no one that is perfect in this world. Someone may get close enough to perfect, yet in reality no one is perfect. Also don't you think that he is kind of a hypocritical, for he loves Quintia and at the same time he is in love with Lesbia?
So it is very hard to make a clear cut conclusion about his personality.
I don't think Catullus is in love with Quintia...It seems to me that Quintia might be a beautiful woman living in those times and Catullus is stating that his Lesbia is much more beautiful than she is...Actually i was doing some readings and Lesbia was a Roman beautiful woman very strong who liked to play around with men...Her real name was Clodia and she was married but she used to have affairs with other men..She broke Catullus' heart..since after she used him she started another affair with another man...haha poor Catullus...how can i blame Lesbia...Catullus seems so cold in his feelings.
ah one more thing...Also after a wrote the comment yesterday I was thinking that Catullus' description of a woman's body is very different from descriptions other poets have made...Mathematical forms are very linear and plane and usually in those times women had beautiful "curves" and forms...That's why probably Lesbia left him...haha..
I agree with you Mohammad, I think Catullus is basing his idea of love on physical appearance. Another student in a later blog mentioned that he saw things the opposite way that Mohammad and I see it. He said that Catullus was very into intellect and looks beyond physical beauty. I guess this poem can be interpreted very differently depending on the person.(Prof. I resent this post because it had nick name from a previous project that I did at Baruch. So I wanted you to know it was me)
Actually Mohammad more than a perfect love he is looking for an ideal one..After I read other poems written from him I see Catullus immagines a realtionship with Lesbia which is total both physically than intellectualy speaking. It is a beautiful concept of love and he wants a lover but also a friend to share moments with. I think what Catullus feels for Lesbia (Clodia)is romantic Love!
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