1. There is something very poetic about mathematics. The fact that Catullus uses this method to describe someone he loves shows that he cherishes her very much. I think Catullus feels that Lesbia is his soul mate because her body length is perfect. He states “Lesbia’s beauty is total” which indicates that Lesbia was everything he wants. Many mathematicians and scientists use many ratios to study the proportion of the human body. Some believe that people who are disproportioned there could be health issues. Therefore maybe Lesbia’s body is correctly proportioned and thereby healthy
2. Poem # 69
In this poem, he talks about how a guy cannot get girls to like him because the ladies do not like the way he looks. He states the guy should not wonder why the reason why girls do not like him and he should change himself.
Poem # 83
In this poem, he tells the readers that he believes Lesbia still thinks about him. This is because she says bad things about Catullus in front of her husband; he knows that she still thinks about him. And when she speaks about Catullus, she is really angry.
Poem #38
In this poem, Catullus discusses the feeling of lost love. He says the pain increases as days and hours go by. All he asks for is a little bit of relief from the pain.
Some themes that Catullus writes about are love, lost love, and overall life issues. He is very critical and seems to say a lot in his poems. I believe that his points of view are still applicable to the modern times. His ideas of love and how to cope with the lost of love is still true. The feelings that he depicts are true even if some people do not want to portray it as such.
3. My personal definition of a romantic love is one that is summarized by Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice. The story is an adult fairy tale. Boy meets girl, they fight, boy saves girl and they live happily ever after. What I like most of this romantic love between Darcy and Elizabeth is the wooing that goes on. Darcy compliments Elizabeth at the same time upsets her. It is a clever type of love. It shows that first impression of people is not the best thing to judge them on.
Sunday, September 27, 2009
Leonid Shmukler - Catullus and Sappho
1. Catullus seems like the type of man who looks beyond the realm of physical appearance. While many men find Quintia “stunning,” Catullus isn’t as impressed. He believes that she is “attractive,” but that “the woman is scarcely venerious.” In other words, he does not find her lustful and she does not possess the traits that tickle his fancy. He seems to need more than just the beauty of a woman to impress him. For example, there is something about Lesbia that sweeps Catullus off his feet. Perhaps she possesses qualities besides beauty, such as personality, demeanor, mannerisms, intelligence, etc. There are many mathematical terms in which Catullus uses to compare a woman’s body. He states, “for Lesbia’s beauty is total: And by that sum all other women are diminished.” The words that he used to describe this woman, “total” and “sum”, signifies that she is the total package. Lesbia has every quality that Catullus desires in a woman because according to him, “by that sum all other women are diminished.” He uses these “mathematical comparisons” to form an image in the reader’s mind of the type of women that appeals to him and to explain his vision on the difference between “love and beauty.”
2. Poem # 85
This poem is strictly about the feelings of love and hate. Catallus is stating that there is no direct place where love and hate can be developed or found, and that in other words, these feelings just exist. He states that he feels that this “happens and I am tortured.” This could relate to mean that the feelings of love and hate are the two strongest emotions that can be felt that are on opposite sides. Perhaps Catallus feels tortured because he might feel alone to bear with such strong feelings. He might have no one in which to share how he feels with and this can be very difficult in dealing with the emotions of both love and hate. The themes discussed here are love and hate. The social commentary stated here can definitely be valuable in today’s world because these are the two most powerful feelings that people can have toward each other.
Poem # 106
This poem by Catallus is short, but meaningful. He states that “an auctioneer with a beautiful boy” seems to have the distinct goal of “selling himself.” In other words, there are people who often show off themselves through the great material items they possess, or through other such things to compensate for what they lack. For example, a father might show off how wonderful he is through the accomplishments of his children, or someone might compensate for their lack of looks or personality through possessing a flashy sports car. The themes that are discussed here have to do with vanity, narcissism, and ego. The social commentary of Catallus in this poem is valuable for modern times because these themes are some of the most commonly discussed and debated issues existing today.
Poem # 110
In this poem, Catullus is speaking to his girlfriend and scolding her for not being responsive and obedient. The case here seems to be that he gives her a lot, both materialistically and physically, and she does not give him much in return. He compares her to “a greedy whore who prostitutes herself with her whole body.” The themes that Catallus seems to focus on are that of sex, pressure, and sexism. His social commentary in this poem is valuable for modern times because these are issues that people focus on and are part of everyday relationships.
3. I believe that true romantic love is the willingness of each person, in a relationship, to put his or her partner’s needs in front of their own. It’s about sacrificing for one another until both parties are happy and at ease. It’s about being there for each other, supporting each other, and getting through difficult obstacles as a team. The person’s main attraction should not be his or her partner’s physical appearance, but rather his or her personality. One of Owen Wilson’s famous statements from his script from the movie, “Wedding Crashers” was “Love is the soul’s recognition of its counterpart in another.” I believe this is true because I believe in fate. I believe that g-d has set a plan for all of us and who we are destined to be with. Love is the most mysterious, irrational, and mind-boggling emotion to explain, but yet the one that most people thrive to obtain.
2. Poem # 85
This poem is strictly about the feelings of love and hate. Catallus is stating that there is no direct place where love and hate can be developed or found, and that in other words, these feelings just exist. He states that he feels that this “happens and I am tortured.” This could relate to mean that the feelings of love and hate are the two strongest emotions that can be felt that are on opposite sides. Perhaps Catallus feels tortured because he might feel alone to bear with such strong feelings. He might have no one in which to share how he feels with and this can be very difficult in dealing with the emotions of both love and hate. The themes discussed here are love and hate. The social commentary stated here can definitely be valuable in today’s world because these are the two most powerful feelings that people can have toward each other.
Poem # 106
This poem by Catallus is short, but meaningful. He states that “an auctioneer with a beautiful boy” seems to have the distinct goal of “selling himself.” In other words, there are people who often show off themselves through the great material items they possess, or through other such things to compensate for what they lack. For example, a father might show off how wonderful he is through the accomplishments of his children, or someone might compensate for their lack of looks or personality through possessing a flashy sports car. The themes that are discussed here have to do with vanity, narcissism, and ego. The social commentary of Catallus in this poem is valuable for modern times because these themes are some of the most commonly discussed and debated issues existing today.
Poem # 110
In this poem, Catullus is speaking to his girlfriend and scolding her for not being responsive and obedient. The case here seems to be that he gives her a lot, both materialistically and physically, and she does not give him much in return. He compares her to “a greedy whore who prostitutes herself with her whole body.” The themes that Catallus seems to focus on are that of sex, pressure, and sexism. His social commentary in this poem is valuable for modern times because these are issues that people focus on and are part of everyday relationships.
3. I believe that true romantic love is the willingness of each person, in a relationship, to put his or her partner’s needs in front of their own. It’s about sacrificing for one another until both parties are happy and at ease. It’s about being there for each other, supporting each other, and getting through difficult obstacles as a team. The person’s main attraction should not be his or her partner’s physical appearance, but rather his or her personality. One of Owen Wilson’s famous statements from his script from the movie, “Wedding Crashers” was “Love is the soul’s recognition of its counterpart in another.” I believe this is true because I believe in fate. I believe that g-d has set a plan for all of us and who we are destined to be with. Love is the most mysterious, irrational, and mind-boggling emotion to explain, but yet the one that most people thrive to obtain.
Saturday, September 26, 2009
Mohammad Awal: Response to Catullus And Sappho
I believe Catullus is a materialistic person, who defines love and beauty by his sights rather than his heart. As he talks about Quintia that she is not “stunning”, for “there is no spice at all in the length of her body”. He judges people based on their appearance. I also think his love is very shallow. People’s appearance may not last forever. So does it mean a person will love someone only because that person looks good, and dump in the next day because that person don’t looks as great as before? I would argue that it is unfair.
To me a romantic love is not necessarily the way someone looks, though it is a part of it, but the most important part is the personality of that person. The reason is a person may looks great, but one can’t stand the way other person talks, thinks, or views certain thing. It is very hard to grow emotion and have romantic feeling for such a person. In order to have a romantic love, one should love and enjoy each other in every moment of their lives. It reminds me of the lyric “ I love you for what’s you are” (not the way you look). Any thing a couple does can be romantic; even it is just staring at each other’s face silently.
In the Poem #33, the poet is talking about a father and a son who might be involving with homosexual activities. The poet is saying to them, especially to the son that why don’t you flee from this place where your father is abusing you? He wants them to get ride of this bad behavior and get a better life. I don’t know of any situation where a father abused his son sexually; however it comes in the news sometime that man rapes his daughter.
Ira Cabrele - Catullus and his view of love and beauty!
1. When I think of mathematics, I immediately think of rational. Catullus vision of love seems rational if we look at the mathematical description he makes of his lover. He is seeking for perfection. All mathematical objects have perfect shape and dimensions. And so is the woman Catullus is in love with: she has a perfect beauty. But at the same time I see Catullus in an emotional state. He seems deeply in love with Lesbia and no other woman seems to interest him. Lesbia seems to have a strong power on him. All other women compared to her beauty are diminuished according to the poet. Catullus is seeking perfection in terms of beauty and love!
Eugene's Post
1. It is very clear that beauty is the most important thing in a woman and that is the first thing that he would notice in a woman. According to Catullus, beauty is something that is measured, and it only applies to the physical features of a woman. He uses mathematical phrases such a sum, total and diminish to describe Lesbia's beauty. He feels that Lesbia is the most beautiful woman, and no other woman can compare to her beauty. The sum of all womens beauty does not compare to Lesbias total beauty. In a mathematical sense he basically uses addition to add up all of the womens beatuy, but subtraction becuase it is still less than Lesbias total beauty.
2. I think in all of Catullus's poems only focus on beauty and nothing else. I do believe that his views and commentary can be linked with these present times. Alot of people say that true beauty is on the inside and I agree with that, however most people are shallow and most of the time they will judge a book by its cover, and that is all that Catullus seems to talk about. He never mentions a womans intellect, only her physical features.
In poem 43, he is speaking about a woman who claims to be so "beautiful". He then goes on to say that compared to Lesbia she is ugly and is nowhere near Lesbias beauty. There is no comparison to Lesbia's beauty, clearly this other woman has a big nose, big feet, dry lips and Catullus cannot understand how this woman is considered beautiful. He thinks that people who think shes beautiful are "tasteless" and don't know true beauty. It is clear that Lesbia is the most beautiful woman he knows.
In poem 78, he is again speaking about outer beauty, and physical features. By using the words such as lovliest and beautiful there is a real emphasis on physical appearance. It also seems as though adultery is accepted becuase this poem states Gallus is a "stupid man that doesn't see himself as a husband" and becuase this woman is so lovely and beautiful, it is ok to have an affair with her.
In poem 82 there is a real emphasis on the importance of eye sight. Catullus's eyes are his most important feature. The quote "anything if there is more dear than eyes " really says alot about Catullus's character. He is so shallow that if he does not have his eye sight there is nothing for him to live for. He needs his eyes to see and if Quintus takes away his eyesight than he will not be able to see Lesbia's beauty nor anyone elses. And it is clear that his eyes make him the person that he is.
3. In my opinion romantic love is feeling complete with the person you are with. Love is unconditional and it is something that can never be measured. Love is going above and beyond for a person knowing that your words and actions are deeply appreciated. I do believe that that you do have a strong physical attraction to the person as well, but at the end of the day if your significant other accepts you for the person that you are and loves you reguardless of any flaw that you have, then you know that you are in love.
2. I think in all of Catullus's poems only focus on beauty and nothing else. I do believe that his views and commentary can be linked with these present times. Alot of people say that true beauty is on the inside and I agree with that, however most people are shallow and most of the time they will judge a book by its cover, and that is all that Catullus seems to talk about. He never mentions a womans intellect, only her physical features.
In poem 43, he is speaking about a woman who claims to be so "beautiful". He then goes on to say that compared to Lesbia she is ugly and is nowhere near Lesbias beauty. There is no comparison to Lesbia's beauty, clearly this other woman has a big nose, big feet, dry lips and Catullus cannot understand how this woman is considered beautiful. He thinks that people who think shes beautiful are "tasteless" and don't know true beauty. It is clear that Lesbia is the most beautiful woman he knows.
In poem 78, he is again speaking about outer beauty, and physical features. By using the words such as lovliest and beautiful there is a real emphasis on physical appearance. It also seems as though adultery is accepted becuase this poem states Gallus is a "stupid man that doesn't see himself as a husband" and becuase this woman is so lovely and beautiful, it is ok to have an affair with her.
In poem 82 there is a real emphasis on the importance of eye sight. Catullus's eyes are his most important feature. The quote "anything if there is more dear than eyes " really says alot about Catullus's character. He is so shallow that if he does not have his eye sight there is nothing for him to live for. He needs his eyes to see and if Quintus takes away his eyesight than he will not be able to see Lesbia's beauty nor anyone elses. And it is clear that his eyes make him the person that he is.
3. In my opinion romantic love is feeling complete with the person you are with. Love is unconditional and it is something that can never be measured. Love is going above and beyond for a person knowing that your words and actions are deeply appreciated. I do believe that that you do have a strong physical attraction to the person as well, but at the end of the day if your significant other accepts you for the person that you are and loves you reguardless of any flaw that you have, then you know that you are in love.
A's for the Q's
1. i was a bit troubled answering this b/c I feel it didn't give enough to judge his vision of love and beauty. he mentions only two women one he expresses distaste for, and the other appears to be the twinkle in his eye. maybe he loathes Quinta b/c she rejected him and fucked his best friend or maybe he is superficial and transparent, but come on who isn't. how many of us can say we don't "add up" a person's traits to our expectations only a few of us would lay with a person that has goat-like facial features (unless alcohol plays a part then that statistic may increase), but if i was to answer this as if I had no trouble whatsoever I'd would SUM it up by saying I believe the mathematical comparisons is used for wit, to make the poem flow, and his view of love and beauty is like any other living human, he is realistic in judging people and comparing them to his likes and dislikes.
2a. I chose different poems to interpret b/c i felt the responses would tend to repeat itself after the fifth blog, so i went with #42, 43, and 47 (no reason really just went one below 32, 33, & 37)
#42
reading this made me think of pink floyd and the album The Wall with the song that starts out saying " I got a little black book with my poems in it" this could totally be another song on that album but anyway:
he is obviously pissed off, love how he starts off by saying "come here, nasty words, so many I can hardly tell where you all came from" which tells me he like Linda Blair head spinning pissed. it appears that a women stole his poems, who she is isn't mention she could be a working girl servicing Johns (whore; ) or a girlfriend or lover that wanted to hurt him by taking his writings, I'm going with the lover b/c he mentions (if nothing else, lets make that pinched bitch turn red-faced.) if it was a working girl i don't think it would bother her all that much to be called a rotten slut, if anything it might help business.
this relates in modern times on so many levels, lovers fight all the time and find ways to hurt one another; we always take for granted and hurt the ones closest to us.
2b. #43
ahhh short but sweet........ and to top it off helps back up my answer to the first question. love it
it just him speaking of a girl/woman/hag with distaste call her big nosed, with ugly feet, black eyes ect ect ect... and he asks her if people (province) think of her as beautiful? and then he asked is Lesbia compared with you? it appears that he holds a torch for Lesbia and no one else compares to this love that is engulfed in.
I think we all have had or have a love that is perfect in our eyes and nothing else compares or be EQUAL to... (see used a mathematical comparison to be witty) ;)
2c. #47
another short one..... but not as sweet, have to say one thing this guy doesn't like a lot of people, but anyway, he mention two people he doesn't like calling them the two left hands of piso(?) well I believe at that time in history the left hand meant evil or the devils hand (and yes I'm left handed and no I'm not offended) so he's calling them evil and a scab and hunger of the universe, a scab is clot to help heal a wound but could be look at in a negative way like a scab in the outcome of pain and suffering so with out the scab there couldn't be pain also the same goes for hunger, true hunger not the "I normally eat lunch at 12pm and now it's 1:30pm, I'm so hungry" but the its been six days without food, my wife's foot looks tasty, belly swollen-ribs showing knees looking like sea turtles slip under my skin and died there hunger. so these guys guys seem to be miserable and misery loves company
so their partying and having a great time eating "lavishly" while his buddies are begging for food on the corner.
well most artist are poor or was poor or lived the Bohemian life style, and some could be eccentric like this fellow here, so it is only natural that he loathes the two people b/c he and his friends are just as deserving if not more deserving b/c of his intellect to have such parties.
how does this relate to current times one word will SUM it up
Envy.
3. my personal definition of romantic love besides hand holding, warm chocolate steaming from our cups as we kick leafs to the side as we stroll though the park, speaking softly to one another while smiling effortlessly: would be something I wrote not to long ago
2a. I chose different poems to interpret b/c i felt the responses would tend to repeat itself after the fifth blog, so i went with #42, 43, and 47 (no reason really just went one below 32, 33, & 37)
#42
reading this made me think of pink floyd and the album The Wall with the song that starts out saying " I got a little black book with my poems in it" this could totally be another song on that album but anyway:
he is obviously pissed off, love how he starts off by saying "come here, nasty words, so many I can hardly tell where you all came from" which tells me he like Linda Blair head spinning pissed. it appears that a women stole his poems, who she is isn't mention she could be a working girl servicing Johns (whore; ) or a girlfriend or lover that wanted to hurt him by taking his writings, I'm going with the lover b/c he mentions (if nothing else, lets make that pinched bitch turn red-faced.) if it was a working girl i don't think it would bother her all that much to be called a rotten slut, if anything it might help business.
this relates in modern times on so many levels, lovers fight all the time and find ways to hurt one another; we always take for granted and hurt the ones closest to us.
2b. #43
ahhh short but sweet........ and to top it off helps back up my answer to the first question. love it
it just him speaking of a girl/woman/hag with distaste call her big nosed, with ugly feet, black eyes ect ect ect... and he asks her if people (province) think of her as beautiful? and then he asked is Lesbia compared with you? it appears that he holds a torch for Lesbia and no one else compares to this love that is engulfed in.
I think we all have had or have a love that is perfect in our eyes and nothing else compares or be EQUAL to... (see used a mathematical comparison to be witty) ;)
2c. #47
another short one..... but not as sweet, have to say one thing this guy doesn't like a lot of people, but anyway, he mention two people he doesn't like calling them the two left hands of piso(?) well I believe at that time in history the left hand meant evil or the devils hand (and yes I'm left handed and no I'm not offended) so he's calling them evil and a scab and hunger of the universe, a scab is clot to help heal a wound but could be look at in a negative way like a scab in the outcome of pain and suffering so with out the scab there couldn't be pain also the same goes for hunger, true hunger not the "I normally eat lunch at 12pm and now it's 1:30pm, I'm so hungry" but the its been six days without food, my wife's foot looks tasty, belly swollen-ribs showing knees looking like sea turtles slip under my skin and died there hunger. so these guys guys seem to be miserable and misery loves company
so their partying and having a great time eating "lavishly" while his buddies are begging for food on the corner.
well most artist are poor or was poor or lived the Bohemian life style, and some could be eccentric like this fellow here, so it is only natural that he loathes the two people b/c he and his friends are just as deserving if not more deserving b/c of his intellect to have such parties.
how does this relate to current times one word will SUM it up
Envy.
3. my personal definition of romantic love besides hand holding, warm chocolate steaming from our cups as we kick leafs to the side as we stroll though the park, speaking softly to one another while smiling effortlessly: would be something I wrote not to long ago
Simple
a kiss we shared, was like magic
I dreamed of such a time, the minutes into hours
so many nights, countless days
I dreamed of something so simple
The kiss of your lips
we share so much
stories of lives parted by seas
words I fight to remember, each day
The sight of your eyes, the warmth of your presence
stirs this dark thing that sits in my heart
it makes me feel again, a feeling I lost long ago
An emotion called love that I once have known
came forth to play its part
It's true, yes you heard right
moments before we embraced
I told myself it can't be true
we could never be hand in hand, face to face
whispering words that make us smile, laugh
I was going to destroy each dream
from my mind
You heard it right I think....
Simple
Its just like that, no more no less
I smile, I laugh, And I love
yes my dear, i fear its true....
I've fallen in love with you
George Marchitella
7/5/09
Friday, September 25, 2009
Mei Liu's response to Catullus and Sappho
1. I think Catullus views love not as an emotion but rather as something that you can observe and objectified. He use words such as 'length' and 'sum' to describe a woman's body shape which shows that he likes to use his eyes to objectified rather than talk about emotions and feelings that can't be described physically. I had mixed feelings about Catullus when I read poem 86. I think he's the type of person that judges a book by the cover because to him beauty is love and that the most beautiful woman is his love but at the same time I think there's something more he looks for instead of just beauty, because in poem 86, he writes that others have find Quintia "stunning" but he prefers Lesbia over Quintia. This shows that he might not have the same beauty standards as other men, or he also looks for something more than being beautiful.
2. I think in Catullus's poem 106, he question the good of human nature in a way. In this I think he shows that he believes anyone that are beautiful and have committed actions that are of a lower class is to bring tortue upon themselves and that they enjoy doing it rather than are forced to do it. I honestly believe nobody would want to do something like sell themselves unless they are forced or there's a story behind it and I would not just say that he's selling himself.
I think in Catullus's poem 73, he belives that humans don't deserve anyone helping them and that they shouldn't be grateful or appreciate it when someone helps them. And he thinks that helping people out is not a very "profitable" thing to do, which shows that he probably thinks its a waste of time and only wants to spend time doing things he thinks will benefit himself.
I think in Catullus's poem 78, he uses satire to degrade humans. This poem basically explains that because of someones stupidity, they caused incest for the family. When I read the poem, I laughed and then questioned what the heck is wrong with them. This shows that he thinks lower of people who are not as educated or are not intelligent.
I think themes that tends to interest him is human nature, erotic love, anger maybe?, friends and foe. Most of the satirical poems make fun of traits that degrades humans. I would say it's brutual but it's pretty honest, because we always judge a lot the first time we see something. We don't like to think there's a underlying message or story and believe what is given.
3. My personal definition of romantic love is the kind of love both parties would go against the people they care about for the one they love. Kind of like Romeo and Juilet where they are not allowed to be together but they still choose to be together in the end. It's the type of love where you'll do anything for the person you love, even if it means betraying your family or friends. I think love should be between two people and the would shouldn't have a say about what they decide to do. It's their own choice. And two people definitely have to go through a lot of ups and downs, tears and smiles, break-ups and make-ups to really say that they've gone through everything and to say they love each other. And I think time is very important also. The longer you spend with someone, the more you show you love that person. I believe in the saying, 'where you put your time is where your heart is at'. Spending time, which I consider to be one of the most valueable resource, because it's irreplaceable, with someone shows that you're willing to give them something very important.
2. I think in Catullus's poem 106, he question the good of human nature in a way. In this I think he shows that he believes anyone that are beautiful and have committed actions that are of a lower class is to bring tortue upon themselves and that they enjoy doing it rather than are forced to do it. I honestly believe nobody would want to do something like sell themselves unless they are forced or there's a story behind it and I would not just say that he's selling himself.
I think in Catullus's poem 73, he belives that humans don't deserve anyone helping them and that they shouldn't be grateful or appreciate it when someone helps them. And he thinks that helping people out is not a very "profitable" thing to do, which shows that he probably thinks its a waste of time and only wants to spend time doing things he thinks will benefit himself.
I think in Catullus's poem 78, he uses satire to degrade humans. This poem basically explains that because of someones stupidity, they caused incest for the family. When I read the poem, I laughed and then questioned what the heck is wrong with them. This shows that he thinks lower of people who are not as educated or are not intelligent.
I think themes that tends to interest him is human nature, erotic love, anger maybe?, friends and foe. Most of the satirical poems make fun of traits that degrades humans. I would say it's brutual but it's pretty honest, because we always judge a lot the first time we see something. We don't like to think there's a underlying message or story and believe what is given.
3. My personal definition of romantic love is the kind of love both parties would go against the people they care about for the one they love. Kind of like Romeo and Juilet where they are not allowed to be together but they still choose to be together in the end. It's the type of love where you'll do anything for the person you love, even if it means betraying your family or friends. I think love should be between two people and the would shouldn't have a say about what they decide to do. It's their own choice. And two people definitely have to go through a lot of ups and downs, tears and smiles, break-ups and make-ups to really say that they've gone through everything and to say they love each other. And I think time is very important also. The longer you spend with someone, the more you show you love that person. I believe in the saying, 'where you put your time is where your heart is at'. Spending time, which I consider to be one of the most valueable resource, because it's irreplaceable, with someone shows that you're willing to give them something very important.
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